How Do You Reconcile Different Musical Genres/Styles In Your Writing and Producing?

[Louie]

I don’t have any issues reconciling different musical genres and styles in my listening, and to some extent in playing.

But in writing, and producing music, that is a different story (for me)!

Edit: In your music making, in particular your writing and producing (assuming you cross over genres/styles), do you feel like you still hear your own unique musical voice as a common thread when crossing over, or does it seem more fragmented than that, or even completely separate? Is this something you even think about?

For example, I sometimes think about the music I was doing when heavily involved in acoustic jazz, and before that progressive rock stuff. And compare that with orchestral music I’m writing today with samples, and it feels like almost a different universe. But occasionally, I’ll notice a common thread with melodic shapes and rhythmic patterns and feel (hopefully this makes sense and apologize if this seems vague).

Would love to hear your perspective and experiences.

P.S. Think of the thread question as applicable to gigs and/or your own personal music.

 

[Tim Nash]

When we learn to play an instrument we play things over and over again. Eventually what we practice becomes part of who we are musically. I believe we all experience to some degree what you describe when writing. I notice it in my melodies, recurring phrases or feel. I'm aware of the patterns that are ingrained in me. My musical crutches I call them. I'm able to identify when I'm using one. I can then create something new to replace it.

 

[Nekujak]

I grew up in a household that was steeped in classical music, but when I was 11 years old, I discovered the Beatles and they became my fervent obsession and gateway into pop music. It wasn't until high school that I started listening to other pop artists, and the thing that struck me immediately, was that every Beatles album offered so much more musical variety than albums by most other artists. Beatles albums were like a colorful musical journey spanning multiple genres and sonic landscapes, and that's what I grew up believing music should be all about.

So when I started writing my own songs, I always tried to write in different styles and genres. The thought of writing multiple songs all in one style seemed boring and creatively stifling. It was as if I would say to myself, "I already made one of those, let's write something different."

Fast forward to my current musical activities, writing for production libraries, various clients, and film scores, and I'm constantly being asked to mimic certain artists or write in a particular style, especially when it comes to songs.

In all these situations, both writing for myself and for others, no matter how successful I am at embodying a particular genre, my inherent musical voice is always present in the work. I think it's very similar to someone who does impressions. No matter how good an impression is, the person's own unique voice is always in there as well.

I recently watched some videos on how to do a Christopher Walken impression. Many examples were presented from folks who are especially good at Walken impressions: Jay Mohr, Kevin Spacey, Kevin Pollak, Bill Hader, etc... They all definitely sound like Christopher Walken, but at the same time, they're all uniquely different because each impressionist's own voice is unavoidably baked into the impression.

I think that’s how it is when we write in different genres. We appropriate the stylistic characteristics of a particular genre, but our own unique voice is always woven into the fabric of the final result.

 

[Tim Nash]

I grew up in a household that was steeped in classical music, but when I was 11 years old, I discovered the Beatles and they became my fervent obsession and gateway into pop music. It wasn't until high school that I started listening to other pop artists, and the thing that struck me immediately, was that every Beatles album offered so much more musical variety than albums by most other artists. Beatles albums were like a colorful musical journey spanning multiple genres and sonic landscapes, and that's what I grew up believing music should be all about.

So when I started writing my own songs, I always tried to write in different styles and genres. The thought of writing multiple songs all in one style seemed boring and creatively stifling. It was as if I would say to myself, "I already made one of those, let's write something different."

Fast forward to my current musical activities, writing for production libraries, various clients, and film scores, and I'm constantly being asked to mimic certain artists or write in a particular style, especially when it comes to songs.

In all these situations, both writing for myself and for others, no matter how successful I am at embodying a particular genre, my inherent musical voice is always present in the work. I think it's very similar to someone who does impressions. No matter how good an impression is, the person's own unique voice is always in there as well.

I recently watched some videos on how to do a Christopher Walken impression. Many examples were presented from folks who are especially good at Walken impressions: Jay Mohr, Kevin Spacey, Kevin Pollak, Bill Hader, etc... They all definitely sound like Christopher Walken, but at the same time, they're all uniquely different because each impressionist's own voice is unavoidably baked into the impression.

I think that’s how it is when we write in different genres. We appropriate the stylistic characteristics of a particular genre, but our own unique voice is always woven into the fabric of the final result.

I too grew up in a house full of music. As a kid I would hear Stravinsky, Bach, Coltrane, Ellington, Miles, The Beatles, Robert Johnson........... all at the same time coming from different rooms!!!!! This had a huge influence on me. Especially the variety of music that the Beatles produced as you mentioned. I always try to not repeat myself from song to song. I think that's partly why I became so aware of my musical crutches. When you write a lot, you start to recognize your innate/ingrained patterns.

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

In your music making, in particular your writing and producing (assuming you cross over genres/styles), do you feel like you still hear your own unique musical voice as a common thread when crossing over, or does it seem more fragmented than that, or even completely separate? Is this something you even think about?

Although I tend to categorize my music as progressive/symphonic rock, I'm also heavily influenced by jazz rock/fusion, eighties new wave, psychedelic rock, and even somewhat by space rock (think Hawkwind and Eloy), seventies electronica, and classical music. The result doesn't fit squarely in any of these genres, and to me, that is 'my' personal style of music. And as this comes naturally to me, after listening to all these genres over the last 50 years or so, this is indeed something I don't really think about.

The Beatles are mentioned a few times already, but I didn't start with them (although I made up for that in later life). However, one of my favorite bands from the seventies and eighties is ELO, and Jeff Lynne did 'borrow' a lot from them, so there's that.

 

[Louie]

Going way back, my Dad listened to what my Mom referred to as "hillbilly music" (commonly referred to as bluegrass), but also Hank Williams Sr., Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan, and Motown. My Mom played the piano and listened to classical and 40-50s popular (Bing Crosby, who I made fun of and still do, and Nat Cole, who I made fun of then, but appreciate now). My older brother and sister listened to 60s and 70s rock. So I'm similar in having a fairly wide exposure of music early on, and played in the school orchestras. And then of course I had to be different and add the Star Wars soundtrack (first Vinyl record) then later jazz and jazz fusion into the mix. But not with my Dad home, he hated jazz.

Which brings up an another example: I hear the jazz influence in John Williams' scores (mainly in some aspects of the harmony, and to some extent even his choice of rhythms actually). And his unique composing "voice" is of course also influenced heavily from the symphonic repertoire, and ethnic/world sources as well. And even within that hugely varied mixture, his voice is still identifiable throughout his film scores and concert music. But, from peeking at his early jazz piano recordings, I wouldn't recognize him.

Just one example of what I was getting at: I'm assuming this is an authentic transcription. It's gorgeous, but I wouldn't be able to identify John Williams' unique voice.


On the other hand, Miles Davis Trumpet signature is unmistakable from his 50s jazz all the way through the 70s fusion and the 80s instrumental jazz fusion/pop.

And I can listen to Norah Jones in her country, jazz, or rock guises and it's still very clearly Norah Jones. But, similar to Miles, I think this has more to do with the uniqueness of her vocal/voice itself and inflections in articulation, timing, and phrasing, and less to do with the structure of the musical composition. But there again, she does certain things with her harmonic progressions that crosses pop, jazz, and country that I think I could pick out as her style of writing. I haven't done an analysis--just my take away from listening to of few of her albums over and over.

Edit: Another interesting perspective. I just remembered an interview with Phillip Glass discussing the quest of searching for your own voice, and after finding it, the problem becomes, "getting rid of it”. This is a shorter version of the interview:


Love the different perspectives, keep them coming!

 

[Nitrateaudio]

i don't know what that means. when i write song, i just write them the way i feel them and i don't think much about what styles i might be doing or how to conciously change them to reconcile them. i do think my songs are prety much influence by my favorite types of music and do have a sound that can be easily identifed and linked to my influences.

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

... after finding it, the problem becomes, "getting rid of it”.

Watched the video (nice ) and this specific quote made me realize something: As my influences are pretty varied, I tend to move between those influences when I'm composing a track. The resulting style is relatively fluid because of that, but people who know my music (mainly friends and family) always recognize 'my style.' Probably because of my vocal sound and delivery, but my wife always tells me the arrangements and instrumentation sound like me.

Every composition I make is an experiment in mixing styles. I never start with an idea of where I want to end up. My process is basically a combination of happy accidents, and that in itself is what makes it worth it to me to do it in the first place. I absolutely hate it when I drop into autopilot mode (which does happen occasionally).

The downside of this process is that it takes a long time to finish a track. Constantly being in experimentation mode eats up time like nothing else, and it is not unusual for me to work for months on just one track.

 

[Tim Nash]

Watched the video (nice ) and this specific quote made me realize something: As my influences are pretty varied, I tend to move between those influences when I'm composing a track. The resulting style is relatively fluid because of that, but people who know my music (mainly friends and family) always recognize 'my style.' Probably because of my vocal sound and delivery, but my wife always tells me the arrangements and instrumentation sound like me.

Every composition I make is an experiment in mixing styles. I never start with an idea of where I want to end up. My process is basically a combination of happy accidents, and that in itself is what makes it worth it to me to do it in the first place. I absolutely hate it when I drop into autopilot mode (which does happen occasionally).

The downside of this process is that it takes a long time to finish a track. Constantly being in experimentation mode eats up time like nothing else, and it is not unusual for me to work for months on just one track.

Geez, now I have to go find a new musical voice!!!!!!! LOL
Seems we all write stuff "outside" of the genre silos. Those crutches/patterns show up regardless of genre. They're part of what makes up "our musical voice".

I write in the same manner as you. Just mess around and see what happens. I'm at an age where I triage ideas quickly. I can switch between artist and producer right away. This enables me to work quickly and I'm able to complete a lot of stuff in a short period of time. I'm only writing Pop music these days though as I finally have a chance to be a singer.

 

[DoubleJ]

The types of music I like seem so unrelated that I feel I need to compartmentalize them a bit in my head. But maybe I should try to write a song inspired by Hanz Zimmer and Merle Haggard.lol

 

[Nekujak]

When I make music for myself, I usually don't label it or think of a specific genre. Like most folks here, I just write what I feel like writing. However, there are times I've deliberately experimented with certain genres just to learn more about a particular style and stretch my writing skills.

But here's the rub... I discovered early on, once you start exposing your music to the public, the world pretty much demands labels, genres, and categories.

During my college years, I had a gigging rock/metal band - small time stuff, local clubs and bars - and the first question bookers and club owners would ask is, "What kind of music do you play?" Even as a singer-songwriter, I'd get asked the same thing.

Then when I started selling my music, not only did publishers and distributors require me to check off genre boxes, they also needed me to identify "similar artists", so they could better classify my music. Record stores (remember those), online sellers, and streaming services all group music by category and genre. That's how the world browses and interacts with music.

And of course, as I mentioned previously, when writing songs for hire (libraries, clients, film, etc.) the conversation always starts by identifying a specific genre and/or artist, and the most successful writers are those who can convincingly pull off the required musical styles.

So as songwriters, we just write what we write, and that's the end of it. But if we want our art to interface with the public and reach a receptive audience, genres and labels start to become important. Someone looking for ambient music will likely get pissed off if they run across your country song while browsing the ambient cateogry - although that does sound like some fun Fight Club-style subversion to inflict on streaming services

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

Someone looking for ambient music will likely get pissed off if they run across your country song while browsing the ambient cateogry

Maybe the progressive rock genre is the odd one out, where fans of said genre are expecting to hear unexpected things happening in that kind of music. At least from my own perspective as a progrock fan, I'm certainly like that.

 

[Nekujak]

Maybe the progressive rock genre is the odd one out, where fans of said genre are expecting to hear unexpected things happening in that kind of music. At least from my own perspective as a progrock fan, I'm certainly like that.

I can understand how that applies to music within the genre itself, but do most folks really want to sit back and listen to a hardcore prog rock playlist and suddenly have a Celine Dion album appear in the middle of it!?

 

[Louie]

...but do most folks really want to sit back and listen to a hardcore prog rock playlist and suddenly have a Celine Dion album appear in the middle of it!?

As a confirmed prog rock fan, no thanks!

But yes, within the genre (depending on what one’s definition is of that category) it’s open as far as combing different stuff. For example, I’m all over it if I hear an opening section with a distorted guitar heavy metal riff/groove, and a clear and melodic vocal melody on top. And then say a solo section with a polyrhythmic jazz drum part, walking bass, and keyboard or guitar soloing over that!

Edit: Actually my example wouldn’t be all that unexpected. Heck I’d probably be into it even if the solo was distorted banjo, or even distorted accordion!

I wouldn’t go for it however if the vocalist was a "modern country” male singer with that stereotypical and over emphasized low pitched drawl. But then, with some musician prog rock fans, it seems the vocalist is only there to have something to poke fun at (some kind of odd mannerism or overemphasized glissandi in the vocal would be prime targets). That being said I used to tolerate and sometimes even get a kick out of Les Claypool’s “auctioneer” style vocal. I don’t know if it is pushing it to place Primus in prog rock though. Maybe alternative rock, or funk rock, with a punk rock twist. But I saw them open for Rush more than once, and Rush was straight rock (I guess), although some of their classic stuff is pretty darned progressive with odd time signatures, and more extended instrumentals.

So to me reconciling different genres or styles isn’t about attempting to neatly fit music into categories, but about the art of selection: pairing or mixing/integrating musical elements that might not be considered by convention to be found within the same genre or style, but still musical (above all), and novel or fresh. I guess the most handy analogy would be how restaurants or chefs make such a myriad of new and different kinds of cuisine these days, combing all sorts of food from different cultures and experimentation with different preparation methods. It seems like today it is more difficult to categorize Mediterranean food, Mexican food, even Pizza, as much of it is hybrid.

 

[Nekujak]

So to me reconciling different genres or styles isn’t about attempting to neatly fit music into categories, but about the art of selection: pairing or mixing/integrating musical elements that might not be considered by convention to be found within the same genre or style, but still musical (above all), and novel or fresh.

Totally agree. From an artistic perspective, we can't help but draw upon all our influences when writing songs, and whether or not our music fits neatly into any established categories is irrelevant. It's pure artistic expression and there's no reason to squeeze it into a tidy box.

I was just pointing out that when entering the commercial music landscape, people up and down the distribution and consumer chain generally want music classified into easily identifiable categories and genres, and they won't hesitate to shoehorn it in even if the categorization doesn't necessarily make sense. One notable example being when Jethro Tull beat out Metallica for best hard rock/heavy metal album at the 1989 Grammies. WTF was Jethro Tull even doing in that category?

The music biz and the audience often place stringent expectations on artists. Led Zeppelin was heavily criticized when they released Led Zeppelin III because everyone thought there were too many acoustic folk songs on the album. David Geffen sued Neil Young for producing albums that "weren't commerically viable" and "didn't sound like Neil Young" after Neil experimented with different genres and music technologies during the 1980s. And let's not forget Bob Dylan's infamous and controversial transition from folk to rock. There are countless other such examples. The music biz just wants to sell a neatly packaged product, and that's also how most music consumers are accustomed to receiving their music.

But unless there are specific demands being put on us as songwriters, or we're trying to achieve a specific goal with our music, we're free to create whatever music comes into our heads, and the only genre it really belongs to is: "<insert_your_name_here> music."

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

For example, I’m all over it if I hear an opening section with a distorted guitar heavy metal riff/groove, and a clear and melodic vocal melody on top. And then say a solo section with a polyrhythmic jazz drum part, walking bass, and keyboard or guitar soloing over that!

For me, one of the best examples of mixing unexpected styles is Tangerine Dream's Force Majeure, where Berlin School meets symphonic rock. Of course this was in the (late) seventies, the absolute decade of musical experimentation. It is also, in my opinion, one of the best tracks they ever did.

If you've never heard it, you are in for a treat.

 

[Louie]

For me, one of the best examples of mixing unexpected styles is Tangerine Dream's Force Majeure, where Berlin School meets symphonic rock. Of course this was in the (late) seventies, the absolute decade of musical experimentation. It is also, in my opinion, one of the best tracks they ever did.

If you've never heard it, you are in for a treat.

That took me on a journey and inspiring! Many cool ideas, but they all hang together with a good balance between repetition and new stuff coming at you, and the sounds were really nice.