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Modern pop music is HARD

Nekujak

My muse is demanding better working hours
Last year, I experienced composer burnout after several years of constantly cranking out production music, so I decided to take a break and try something different. Inspired by a Netflix series called F1 Academy and recent elevated interest in women's sports, I thought it would be fun to create some energetic girl-power pop/EDM songs.

Little did I know just how daunting and challenging this undertaking would prove to be, at least for me.

Writing the songs wasn't a problem. I've often needed to write music in various styles, and can usually research and learn the necessary musical traits needed to craft a workable result. Plus, I recruited my wife to co-write, so the lyrics and overall vibe would have an authentic female voice. But the production side was another story. While my native production sensibilities are firmly planted in organic singer-songwriter territory, I thought venturing into the world of modern pop and EDM production would be a breeze. Hah! I was in for a rude awakening that proved to be quite humbling.

Among the harsh realities I encountered...

OLD GUY ENERGY: Being 60+ years old, I simply don't have the unbridled, wide-eyed, try-anything energy of a 20-something, nevermind that I'm not steeped in current youth culture. I'm not saying older people can't make music that appeals to younger audiences, but I am saying that this particular older guy doesn't think, move, and react at the same speed as those young whippersnappers, and thus, creating music that possesses the effervescent youthful energy and trending musical vocabulary needed for modern pop/EDM styles is quite a stretch for me, to say the least.​
LACK OF RELEVANT EXPOSURE: I had dabbled very briefly with trance music back in the early 2000s, so I thought coming up to speed on current EDM trends would be relatively straightforward. But oh no. Once again, I misunderestimated what I was getting myself into.​
To my casual ear, all EDM always sounded the same - a four-on-the-floor beat, sidechained bass and pads, plucky synths, and a whispery or soaring female vocal. The subtle differences between EDM sub-genres like trance, house, techno, melodic techno, drum and bass, brostep, dancehall, grime, UK garage, electro, etc. have always been completely lost on me. But as I got deeper into the EDM world, I discovered these small distinctions are not only significant for production, but the people who successfully produce this music are extremely well versed in them, and are able to creatively draw upon this rich musical vocabulary with skill and ease.​
The EDM milieu is simply not part of my musical DNA - having me produce EDM is like having a podiatrist perform brain surgery. Yeah, it's the same human body we all studied in medical school, but what am I supposed to do with this gelatinous grey/pink thing? But I persevered and eventually got to a point where I understand most of the key stylistic differences, but I'm far from fluent in any of them.​
THE K-POP JUGGERNAUT: I was attracted to K-Pop because I felt the upbeat girl-group mojo would be perfect for these songs, but the hurdles I encountered were even greater than those with EDM. If acquiring a small shred of EDM competency was like climbing the stairs of Montmartre with lead weights on my ankles, tackling K-Pop was like trying to climb Mt. Everest in a t-shirt and flip-flops and dying within the first 1000 feet.​
First off, K-Pop is an industry - it's music that's manufactured by a highly effective, efficient, and well-oiled machine, utilizing the best songwriters, best performers, best production teams and specialists, and best engineers, who've all been rigorously trained from an early age to excel in a highly demanding and competitive environment. What the music may lack in soul (really had to resist writing "Seoul" :ROFLMAO:), it makes up for in sheer technical excellence and impeccable execution. K-Pop songs are a tour-de-force masterclass in pop music production. As a sole (not Seoul) independent producer working in the box, it's a lot to live up to.​
Secondly, K-Pop draws on a variety of western pop styles, so it's not unusual to have several genres represented and seamlessly integrated within a single song. For example, a tune might start with a trap intro, move to an R&B prechorus, go full on dubstep in the chorus, and have a rock breakdown. And like their EDM counterparts, most K-Pop producers are fluent in all these styles, and if not, then a team of genre specialists is assembed for production duties. There's a vast amount of pop music knowledge and production expertise behind every K-Pop track. And again, a very high bar for the sole, non-Seoul, producer.​
And if that weren't enough, there's the vocals... so many parts, so many layers, so many doubled, tripled, and quadrupled harmonies, not to mention all the perfectly placed adlibs and rapid fire raps. It can be exhausting just thinking about it all. Producing the music is certainly no small feat, but crafting the intricate vocal arrangements and achieving effective, youthful, energetic vocal performances is where the real challenge lies.​

So......

After wrestling with all of the above for about 4 months, I came away from the experience with an eye-opening education, and my musical ego somewhat battered and bruised. I was left with one clear conclusion: modern pop music is hard! I don't care how simplistic and unsophisticated the top Spotify songs may seem - crafting good commercial pop songs is not as easy as it looks. There are very few people in the world like Max Martin, Mark Ronson, Jack Anotonoff, Pharrell Williams, etc. who can consistently conquer the pop charts. It takes talent and a special kind of musical acumen.

As for my project, I ended up with three finished, and several partially produced, girl-power pop songs, none of which met my expectations, and certainly weren't competitive enough for publication. So I got over my burnout, resumed my usual composing activities, and archived the songs on a hard drive buried in a drawer.

But about a month ago, I realized giving up was the coward's way, so with redoubled energy, I decided to continue my pop journey, and try to resurrect and improve my earlier production attempts. Which brings me to the point (finally) of this post. Here is the first of these songs to get an updated makeover, and the only one (so far), that I'm not embarrassed to share publicly.

If we don't try to stretch ourselves musically, our creativity will stagnate.
Peace.

 
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I totally get where you're coming from.
People look at me a little confused when I say I write "Pop" music, because who would bother with such trivial stuff?
Of course, one could rightfully argue that pop music isn't exactly intellectually challenging, but in terms of production, it is by no means trivial.

I write "normal" pop, I don't like EDM enough to bother with it, and it would never ever occur to me to compose K-pop.
Often 200+ individual tracks.
More producers (per song) than could ever fit into a Spotify credits list.
Pre-chorus specialists (no, I didn't make that up).
Layering ad infinitum.
The crème de la crème of mixing staff.
You're braver than I am:)

With that off the table, I don't think your song is bad at all.
I'm no K-pop expert, and I don't play one in movies either, so please take my feedback with a grain of salt.
In my opinion, what your song is missing is that "push".
Most modern danceable(!) pop songs only give you a chance to catch your breath when there's a real drop or dedicated break (like a kinda bridge section).
The rest just pushes, pushes, pushes.

Example in your song: at 1:08, there's the lyric "no fear no compromise".
Then 11 instrumental beats till the drop.
Perfect for old school rock, but not for your target audience.
They'll post something on Insta and check back when the drop finally starts.

"no fear no compromise", one two, three, drop.
After the drop they can breath, not before.

If you do this at every point where you would normally wait for the traditional number of beats before a new section begins, your song will sound much faster without actually being faster.

Golden shows this better than I (or any other YouTube arranging/mixing wannabe) could ever explain.

Love to hear your thoughts!
 
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I'm no K-pop expert, and I don't play one in movies either, so please take my feedback with a grain of salt.
In my opinion, what your song is missing is that "push".
Most modern danceable(!) pop songs only give you a chance to catch your breath when there's a real drop or dedicated break (like a kinda bridge section).
The rest just pushes, pushes, pushes.

Example in your song: at 1:08, there's the lyric "no fear no compromise".
Then 11 beats till the drop.
Perfect for old school rock, but not for your target audience.
They'll post something on Insta and check back when the drop finally starts.

"no fear no compromise", one two, three, drop.
After the drop they can breath, not before.

If you do this at every point where you would normally wait for the traditional number of beats before a new section begins, your song will sound much faster without actually being faster.
That's a useful insight, thanks.

BTW the second pre-drop break at 2:32, is shorter. I had done that on purpose for the reasons you state - to keep the momentum going - and also to vary things up. But it's probably still too long.

In earlier versions of this song, the breaks were much shorter - only 4 beats at 1:08 and none at 2:32. But when I went back in and reworked things, I extended both breaks/builds to make them more EDM-like, where buildups tend to be quite long - often 8 bars or more.

But I think I did it in a clumsy way, bolting them on the end of the pre-chorus. The buidlups should be integrated into the overall flow of the music, so should really start during the vocal, like around "now's my time", and climax right when "no compromise" ends, then transition to the drop immediately.

Thanks again for the helpful feedback.
 
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The link in the opening post now points to a new version of the song, based on the discussion started by BDT above. The builds are better integrated into the song and I also took the opportunity to make a few other very minor tweaks.

That is all.
 
OLD GUY ENERGY: Being 60+ years old, I simply don't have the unbridled, wide-eyed, try-anything energy of a 20-something, nevermind that I'm not steeped in current youth culture. I'm not saying older people can't make music that appeals to younger audiences, but I am saying that this particular older guy doesn't think, move, and react at the same speed as those young whippersnappers, and thus, creating music that possesses the effervescent youthful energy and trending musical vocabulary needed for modern pop/EDM styles is quite a stretch for me, to say the least.
Well..., let's work on that.

I'm of the opinion that "pop/EDM" is a lot like rap, just more melodic.
The lyrics themselves have to "pop"; They have to SET the rhythm.

Post your lyrics and let's see if there is a more "natural pop" rhythm in there :cool:
 
Well..., let's work on that.

I'm of the opinion that "pop/EDM" is a lot like rap, just more melodic.
The lyrics themselves have to "pop"; They have to SET the rhythm.

Post your lyrics and let's see if there is a more "natural pop" rhythm in there :cool:
As I mentioned in my post, the writing is not the issue - both my wife and I have years of experience writing in various genres/styles for film and TV. I'm not saying we're experts, but the writing isn't the biggest challenge here.

The overall subject of my post, including the "Old Guy Energy" paragraph, is about production sensibilities - the sounds, the arrangements, the rhythms, the vocals, the vibe, etc. When I say "vocabulary", I'm talking about musical vocabulary as it relates to both stylistic attributes of the music and production, as well as overall energy and youthful appeal.

Obviously, lyrics, melody, and rhythm need to work symbiotically, otherwise everything falls apart. The video I posted is a lyric video, so the lyrics are right there. If there's something you don't think works for a young under-30 audience, let me know.
 
modern pop music is hard! I don't care how simplistic and unsophisticated the top Spotify songs may seem - crafting good commercial pop songs is not as easy as it looks. There are very few people in the world like Max Martin, Mark Ronson, Jack Anotonoff, Pharrell Williams, etc. who can consistently conquer the pop charts. It takes talent and a special kind of musical acumen.
I agree wholeheartedly! Producing a current pop song, in my opinion, is something that only a current pop producer can do. It's a highly specialized talent. Their ears are attuned to where music is right now and where it's headed. They can create a song that a teenager will distinguish as fresh, and not so "three years ago."

The rest of us older producers can try, but the best we'll come up with is a current-ish hybrid of 1980s-2020s pop. If any us think creating a legitimately current pop song would be easy, we're on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger chart!
 
Never mind, Jak.
I spoke out of turn.
You're a bonafide musical genius!
Carry on...
Not even remotely close to genius. Just trying to learn and push my musical limits a bit.

Producing a current pop song, in my opinion, is something that only a current pop producer can do. It's a highly specialized talent. Their ears are attuned to where music is right now and where it's headed. They can create a song that a teenager will distinguish as fresh, and not so "three years ago."
Sadly true, but I'm not letting that stop me from trying. I'm sure I'm flying too close to the sun and will end up plummeting into the ocean, but at least I'm learning some stuff along the way ;)
 
Sadly true, but I'm not letting that stop me from trying.
That's the right attitude. I produced a contemporary pop song back in 2019. It was far different from anything I had done to that point, but to a young person I'm confident it sounded dated. I knew that would be the case going in, but I didn't let it stop me from seeing what I could do. It made it onto a handful of Spotify playlists, but its shelf life understandably expired quickly.

Would I try to create a legitimately fresh pop song today? Not likely. I can appreciate elements of today's pop music, but I cannot feel it as a whole. I'm too old. Any pop music I'd create today, I would arrange to cater to my own ears. It would be on the melodic side and probably lean toward a "tropical house" sound like you often hear at gas station pumps because the dreamscapey synth sounds sate my 1980s tastes.

What you did with your song is great. I hear some hackneyed elements that might make it sound dated to a young person [I must say might because I am in my 50s and can only infer] but I give you credit for how much time and effort you put into that production. For creating a contemporary pop tune from scratch, it's a job well done!

Are you releasing the song as-is, or is this just a demo/proving ground? The reason I ask is that if there's one opinion that jumps out, it would be to find the right lead vocalist. Your wife is a fantastic singer, but her tone, phrasing, and enunciation are too demure for this particular song. If you hired a professional contemporary pop singer, I think you would hear this song come alive in a way that would knock your socks off.
 
Would I try to create a legitimately fresh pop song today? Not likely. I can appreciate elements of today's pop music, but I cannot feel it as a whole.
If they can flatpick AC/DC in the Bluegrass foothills of W Virginia, Anybody can do Pop with the right synth lol...

HEAVY METAL EDM BABY!!!!!!! I'll never be too old :alien:
 
Little did I know just how daunting and challenging this undertaking would prove to be, at least for me.
I think this goes for any musical style that is outside your (or my) wheelhouse. As soon as you dive into the production 'secrets' for styles that are alien, it gets daunting pretty fast in most cases. Especially today with all the music technology we have now, and each specific style using all that tech in genre-specific ways, it's difficult to keep up with production techniques even in your own chosen style. Well, for me at least it is.
 
For creating a contemporary pop tune from scratch, it's a job well done!
Thanks for saying that. I'm not 100% pleased with it, but at this point, I feel it's at least sharable with the public.

Would I try to create a legitimately fresh pop song today? Not likely. I can appreciate elements of today's pop music, but I cannot feel it as a whole. I'm too old. Any pop music I'd create today, I would arrange to cater to my own ears.
Maybe a whole new category of pop music will emerge - Geezer Pop, or something like that :ROFLMAO: Pop music made by older producers that has its own vibe and musical sensibilities!

Your wife is a fantastic singer, but her tone, phrasing, and enunciation are too demure for this particular song. If you hired a professional contemporary pop singer, I think you would hear this song come alive in a way that would knock your socks off.
I totally agree about the vocals. In fact, my wife is not the primary singer on this track (she's only on backgrounds and doubling the melody in some places).

Earlier versions were sung entirely by my wife, but we both quickly recognized her voice isn't ideal for this type of music, so we contacted a singing teacher friend (who's also a great singer hersefl) and asked if she had any students who might be suitable. Before giving us a referral, she said she'd like to try herself, so we recorded her.

It was an improvement, but ultimately, still didn't have the right attitude. Being a singing teacher, she enunciates everything too clearly and pronounces everything too perfectly - exactly what we don't want. Unfortunately, at this point, I think she might be insulted if we asked to use one of her students, so we need to look elsewhere.

For the version posted here, I tried to salvage her vocal by applying some creative effects and blending in a SoundID VoiceAI voice - something I didn't want to do initially, but at this point I was willing to try anything. It helped, but there's no getting around her perfect diction and "schooled" performance.

So yes, the next step is to find the right singer. It's actually the most important thing - far more important than all the production details I've been geeking out over. The vocal is what sells a song.


Are you releasing the song as-is, or is this just a demo/proving ground?
After hearing how Netflix's F1 Academy used female pop songs throughout the series, my intial intent was to create an album of similar material for sync licensing. Clearly, I'm not there yet - and at this point, don't know if I'll ever be.

Part of what's making this whole venture so challenging is I'm trying to produce a style of pop music that's upbeat, energetic, and requires a lot of youthful mojo. There are other contemporary styles of EDM and pop that are much more mellow, ethereal, and even brooding, that would be easier to execute. But that's not what this particular market wants, so oh well...

Self-publishing, Spotify, etc. doesn't interest me - can't really make any money that way. Sync licensing is significantly more lucrative. But for now at least, this is just a learning process as I try to expand my production knowledge and skills. So I'm just posting what I have and gathering general reactions.
 
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Modern pop music’s always been hard.

I go back to the 1960s. Firstly as assistant engineer in a top London studio including working on The Bee Gees ‘Cucumber Castle’ album and subsequent singles “Sweetheart” and “IO-IO”, then gravitating to full engineering reponsibilities engineering hits by The Sweet (as they were then), Atomic Rooster, and Butterscotch plus Top 40 albums by Atomic Rooster and Savoy Brown.

All the time, music was changing - as was the sound of pop and rock as well as performance styles. The character of the business kept changing too. And no more so than songwriting and music publishing. I went into A&R after the studio working for a label that had Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce, Ginger Baker, and The Bee Gees. Thereafter I worked in music publishing with major writers including Jeff Lynne, Roy Wood, Raymond Froggatt and Bruce Springsteen.

And the business continued moving forward: Swamp Rock came in, heavy rock followed, Motown made a resurgence, then singer songwriter was the vogue for a long time. Punk rock followed and in turn was taken over by four-to-the-floor disco (I have to say I’m talking UK here).

What mattered to the record labels was their bottom line and staying ahead of the competition. What mattered most to artists, songwriters and record producers was to ideally be ahead of the game. But failing that, at least competing with what was close to the top of the charts. This is where the challenge lay and still does today.

“Is my song, my arrangement, my performance, my recording, equal or better than theirs?” Feel is the keyword and naturally your material must fit the genre.

To understand today’s pop music you have to really listen to what’s out there - and happening. Then analyze and sub-analyze. Tomorrow it may be different.
 
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To understand today’s pop music you have to really listen to what’s out there - and happening. Then analyze and sub-analyze. Tomorrow it may be different.
Wouldn't it be easier to just ask the "labels" what they're focused on marketing? Especially with regard to lyrics? :unsure:
 
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