OK, so let's talk about DAWs...

[CrimsonWarlock]

For quite a while now I was thinking about writing a post about why I'm using Reason as my main and only DAW. And then Reason Studios was acquired by LandR and we were waiting to see where this would go. The Reason DAW does seem to get some development, but with the announcement of Reason 14, I'm not that confident that things are moving in the right direction for me (I'll get to that in a minute). So I started looking around for another DAW, trialed Cubase Pro 15 and bought it as soon as the intro sale landed. So, by now, I can put a few things side by side.

Reason DAW

I moved to Reason about six years ago, from Reaper that I used for a decade until then. I was surprised by the ease of use in Reason, while most features were well designed and covering all the things needed to produce professional sounding tracks. Especially mixing on a fully emulated SSL desk was pretty much incredible. Also, no amount of plugin management trickery in other DAWs can match the deep integration that Rack Extensions have inside Reason. The obvious reason for that is of course the rack. Well, I said I would come to it in a minute; Reason 14 shows an obvious patch away from the big rack where everything can be linked to everything else, and now has a single rack per track option. This basically is the exact workflow that you get when using the Reason rack plugin in another DAW.

While there are some new sequencer features in 14, and there already were some in 13, the Reason sequencer is years (decades?) behind other DAWs. If I am getting a workflow similar to using the Rack Plugin in another DAW, then why not use another DAW with all its advantages. So I got....

Cubase 15 Pro

The workflow features in Cubase are amazing, the user interface is elegant and things are pretty easy to find. That's quite a feat taking into account how deep this DAW is. Integrating the Reason rack plugin is a bit of work, but the fact that you can make presets in Cubase for just about anything makes the result very nice. At the same time it's very clear where the power of Reason DAW is. Complex routing in Reason is pretty simple as there is one routing paradigm; the cables at the back of the rack. In Cubase, like most other DAWs, you have to use several different menus and windows to link stuff, so complex routing is... complex. At the same time, because of the "preset anything" functionality, you can setup and forget it. So far, I really like my Cubase experiences.

What about Reaper...

Well, while looking around for another DAW I initially tried Reaper again. Even with a decade of experience (albeit a while ago) I was completely lost in the program. The way functionality is presented in Reaper is a serious mess, especially in comparison to Cubase. After trying for a few hours I gave up, remembering why I left Reaper in the first place.


So these are my latest DAW moves. Maybe we can have a nice discussion about these kinds of experiences (hopefully without starting some holy wars).

 

[Nekujak]

I started with Reason back in 2002, and 20+ years later, it continues to be my primary DAW.

For a few years in the mid-2000s, I rewired Reason with Cubase so I could record vocals and acoustic instruments, but as soon as Reason introduced audio recording, I dropped Cubase. I didn't hate Cubase, I just loved Reason so much more. I also tried using Reaper for a while, but as you point out, it's a convoluted mess, plus I have serious issues with some core UI choices.

Unlike many folks, Reason's routing capabilities don't really interest me. I just like Reason because it's always been the quickest and most efficient tool for me to get from musical idea to finished track.

Yes, the sequencer is very bare bones and frustratingly, lacks many QOL features that other DAWs have had for years, but still, that hasn't prevented me from scoring films with Reason, landing hundreds of placements on TV, commercials, and trailers, and recording and mixing projects for others.

Reason 14 looks like it will finally add some useful enhancements to the sequencer, but I'm always skeptical about any update. They ruined the brower/favorites system in Reason 13, and I fully expect more missteps in Reason 14. Over the years, I've skipped several upgrade versions simply because they had nothing useful for me.

But regardless of which DAW we prefer, I think the most significant development we're about to see is AI integration, and that has the potential to level the playing the field, making it irrelevant which DAW we use. Because depending on the implementation, an integrated AI assistant would let you accomplish routing, recording, plugin chain setup, audio cleanup, mixing, mastering, stem separation, etc. simply by telling it what you want to do, and then it doesn't really matter what DAW is running in the background.

For now, Reason still keeps me very happy and productive. But I'm very curious to see how DAWs and AI will integrate in terms of workflow.

 

[Nekujak]

Oh, and speaking of DAWs... is anyone using Luna from UAD?

LUNA Digital Audio Workstation

Download LUNA — a free DAW for Mac and Windows that’s built for the future of music creation. Unlock your creativity with the incredible sound of an analog studio and AI-powered tools that make recording easier.

www.uaudio.com

 

[BDT]

I also have Cubase Pro and Reaper, but I only use Cubase because its approach to how things should be done aligns very well with how my brain is wired.
With Reaper, it's exactly the opposite, which is why I bought the Reaper license just to support the developer.

What I like best about Cubase (the Pro version) is that it comes with some really great stock plugins.
If you can't get a good basic mix with that, no Pluginboutique will help you.
Of course, I have a few third-party plugins, but not many.
It's different with VST instruments, I have plenty of those

But ultimately, DAWs are just tools, the one you like best is the best one.

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

it continues to be my primary DAW.

Recently I was thinking the same. I really like Reason for what it is. However, I don't like where I think it is going now. It seems to me that they will slowly move to making the Reason DAW similar to Live, with a single device column per track. As soon as they release a future update with a clip launcher, we will know where this is heading.

Unlike many folks, Reason's routing capabilities don't really interest me.

Like it or not, it IS the one thing that sets Reason DAW apart from the competition. It also used to be Rack Extensions, but since we can now use those in the Rack plugin, that difference is gone as well.

I also have Cubase Pro and Reaper, but I only use Cubase because its approach to how things should be done aligns very well with how my brain is wired.

The Cubase UX has been impressively optimized over the years. Of course your personal brain wiring has something to do with it as well, but most functionality is simply where you would expect it to be.

What I like best about Cubase (the Pro version) is that it comes with some really great stock plugins.

They are indeed very nice, but with me having over 500 Rack Extensions, there is very little that excites me in that realm .

 

[Louie]

I’ve been on Logic since the Emagic days (and only had to pay for 1 upgrade if I’m remembering correctly).

However, I bought a license of Digital Performer 11.3 around a year ago because it came highly recommended, to scratch an itch I’ve had for a while to try a different DAW, and I was hearing rumblings of Logic moving towards “fully embracing” AI. Not that I’m hardline against using certain AI helpers, but more wary of it getting FUBAR, and last but not least, having to finally break down and buy another computer to run Logic 12 and beyond (currently running Logic Pro 11 on a perfectly good 2020 Intel iMac w/ 128 gb of RAM).

DP has a very nice user interface/layout, and it runs stable on my older Mac, and they don’t seem to be straining or pushing to keep up on the AI front. But I need to use it way more to feel comfortable. Which means setting aside time for problem solving issues as they come up until it starts to feel second nature. But in the moment of inspiration--I still revert to Logic (or MuseScore—depending).

Interestingly, I can’t remember too many pain points learning Emagic Logic, moving from two ADATs, and 16 channel Mackie board! What I do remember is how much of a PITA it was to rewind and sync up those tapes, and how tedious it was making edits (and how expensive outboard gear was).

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

However, I bought a license of Digital Performer 11.3 around a year ago because it came highly recommended, to scratch an itch I’ve had for a while to try a different DAW

I trialed DP11 a while ago and liked it a lot as well. But with rumors of DP12 coming I held off of buying it. I was trialing Cubase for two weeks when the upgrade offer landed which gave me Cubase 15 Pro for just over 200 euros. So I grabbed that one.

However, it seems that the DP12 release is coming soon-ish, and if it lands with a nice intro discount I'll probably get that as well. Then work for some time getting into both and see which one comes out on top and becomes my main DAW for the foreseeable future.

When I started using Reason six years ago, I decided to go all in with Rack Extensions and not getting/using VST plugins anymore. It was the Rack plugin that made me decide this way, as that meant I would always be able to use my REs in another DAW if I needed to switch. I have about 5 grand invested in REs and it shows to be a solid investment now. Cubase as a powerful DAW, combined with the rack-based approach of Reason is a great match. Being able to see and edit your full FX stack for a channel in a rack view beats opening several plugin windows every time.

 

[Nekujak]

Recently I was thinking the same. I really like Reason for what it is. However, I don't like where I think it is going now. It seems to me that they will slowly move to making the Reason DAW similar to Live, with a single device column per track. As soon as they release a future update with a clip launcher, we will know where this is heading.

I may be wrong, but I don't think they're getting rid of the Rack altogether. I mean, they can't, since they offer it as a separate plugin.

It seems to me, all they're doing is providing a quick view of a channel's signal chain from within the sequencer, which can be convenient if all you need to do is make a quick tweak to a single device.

But I really have no real idea - I'm just guessing based on a single preview video.

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

I may be wrong, but I don't think they're getting rid of the Rack altogether. I mean, they can't, since they offer it as a separate plugin.

I think you missed my point. The actual rack in Reason DAW is a multi-channel affair where you can route between FX and instruments that are on different channels. They are now moving to a single rack per channel model, which is the same as using the rack plugin in another DAW. I pointed to Live (and Bitwig is similar) as there you have the same stack of devices as the Reason Rack plugin delivers, albeit horizontally at the lower part of the screen instead of the traditional vertical rack layout that Reason emulates.

I didn't say they will get rid of the rack; my point is that a single rack column is basically the same thing (a stack of devices) that every other DAW delivers in one or another form. The inserts in Reaper, for example, deliver the same functionality where you can stack MIDI plugins, instruments, and FX together in any configuration you like and with as many routing configs in such a stack as you want.

The only benefit I get from using the Rack plugin in Cubase is the full rack view and the fact that I can use my pretty large investment in Rack Extensions in Cubase. The way I see it, if someone uses Live or Bitwig, where there is already a full view of a channel's device stack, the benefit of the Rack plugin is close to zero. The only other thing it will give you is access to some special REs like Objekt and Friktion.

It seems to me that LandR, who now owns Reason Studios, is trying to compete with Live and Bitwig, but in the process will lose the users who use Reason for its actual strengths. That might not be the smartest move. Time will tell, of course.

 

[Nekujak]

I think you missed my point. The actual rack in Reason DAW is a multi-channel affair where you can route between FX and instruments that are on different channels. They are now moving to a single rack per channel model, which is the same as using the rack plugin in another DAW. I pointed to Live (and Bitwig is similar) as there you have the same stack of devices as the Reason Rack plugin delivers, albeit horizontally at the lower part of the screen instead of the traditional vertical rack layout that Reason emulates.

I didn't say they will get rid of the rack; my point is that a single rack column is basically the same thing (a stack of devices) that every other DAW delivers in one or another form. The inserts in Reaper, for example, deliver the same functionality where you can stack MIDI plugins, instruments, and FX together in any configuration you like and with as many routing configs in such a stack as you want.

The only benefit I get from using the Rack plugin in Cubase is the full rack view and the fact that I can use my pretty large investment in Rack Extensions in Cubase. The way I see it, if someone uses Live or Bitwig, where there is already a full view of a channel's device stack, the benefit of the Rack plugin is close to zero. The only other thing it will give you is access to some special REs like Objekt and Friktion.

It seems to me that LandR, who now owns Reason Studios, is trying to compete with Live and Bitwig, but in the process will lose the users who use Reason for its actual strengths. That might not be the smartest move. Time will tell, of course.

Thanks for the detailed clarification. What I know about Reason 14 just comes from the annoucnement email and brief video - so not much. Your description of the new rack behavior immediately raises a few questions in my mind:

If routing between channels is no longer possible, how is sidechaining accomplished? Surely, Reason isn't going to get rid of such a fundamental mixing technique.

And what about backwards compatibility? Reason has always been stellar in its ability to support older versions of projects. To this day, I can open a Reason 2.5 project in Reason 13, and everything works fine. So for older projects that rely on cross-channel routing, how will Reason handle them?

Also, for send effects, some folks prefer not to use the send FX channels that are part of the built-in mixer, but instead, create send effect mixer channels, which is how most DAWs handle send effects. This technique requires cross-channel routing of audio. Will this approach no longer be possible in Reason 14?

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

If routing between channels is no longer possible, how is sidechaining accomplished? Surely, Reason isn't going to get rid of such a fundamental mixing technique.

Reason has had auto-routing for quite some time. I'm sure they will have auto-route sidechaining in some future version.

And what about backwards compatibility? Reason has always been stellar in its ability to support older versions of projects. To this day, I can open a Reason 2.5 project in Reason 13, and everything works fine. So for older projects that rely on cross-channel routing, how will Reason handle them?

Loading old projects just needs to be able to keep the routing intact, not necessarily have it accessible in a straightforward way.

Also, for send effects, some folks prefer not to use the send FX channels that are part of the built-in mixer, but instead, create send effect mixer channels, which is how most DAWs handle send effects. This technique requires cross-channel routing of audio. Will this approach no longer be possible in Reason 14?

Agreed, as that is indeed how I do FX routing in Reason. I basically only use one send for Andrew Scheps's rear-bus technique.

Of course they will keep the whole rack in some way or another, but they might bury it somewhere deep in the system. Looking around on different music forums, people that don't like Reason often give the rack cable-routing as the main reason for their aversion. My guess is that the peeps at LandR are very aware of this, as the move to the new channel view in the sequencer and the single rack per track seem to be pointing at.

 

[Nekujak]

Reason has had auto-routing for quite some time.

I'm not familiar with this. When I sidechain, I simply take a channel's parallel output and route it to a plugin's sidechain input. How does auto-routing work?

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

I'm not familiar with this. When I sidechain, I simply take a channel's parallel output and route it to a plugin's sidechain input. How does auto-routing work?

Not everything auto-routes, but when you drop a new device into the rack, you don't have to put in the cables yourself. When you shift-move stuff in the rack, it automatically re-routes (in 13, they switched the behavior for 14). The combinator also does quite a bit of auto-routing when adding stuff to it. Also, when you drop a sequencer RE, like Sequences, in the rack it tends to auto-connect its CV to the closest synthesizer in the rack.

As I said...

I'm sure they will have auto-route sidechaining in some future version.

 

[Nekujak]

I'm sure they will have auto-route sidechaining in some future version.

Okay, if sidechaining still needs to be manually routed in Reason 14, then they can't possibly be removing the traditional methods of cross-channel routing, at least not in Reason 14.

I love the Rack - I've always maintained the Rack is what makes Reason so usable, accessible, and unique. And it doesn't look like they're doing away with it. Here are some excerpts from the Reason 14 announcement:

A brand-new Rack setting called Rack per Track is the new default and can be turned on for old songs too. Like the name implies, this organizes the Rack to have one Rack column per track.
. . .
While we believe the new way of working is truly fantastic, we’ve made these features optional so you can toggle them and choose exactly how you want to make music.

So the single rack-per-track view sounds like an option, and the traditional full rack view is still available, which means it should still be possible to work with the rack as we always have.

This screenshot from their intro video shows a "Single Column" button in the Rack view. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing this toggles between the full and track rack views:

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

Okay, if sidechaining still needs to be manually routed in Reason 14, then they can't possibly be removing the traditional methods of cross-channel routing, at least not in Reason 14.

Again, as I think I explained by now, removing stuff is NOT what I said I expect to happen. Again, I expect they will bury stuff and promote a 'different' way of working. To my point:

Here are some excerpts from the Reason 14 announcement:

A brand-new Rack setting called Rack per Track is the new default

As the snippet you posted shows, they do move the new single rack front and center, and using the traditional full rack is now 'optional.' This is pretty much exactly what I was predicting, and I don't expect it to stop there.

 

[HCMarkus]

I love DP.

But I need to use it way more to feel comfortable. Which means setting aside time for problem solving issues as they come up until it starts to feel second nature.

Exactly my experience... with Logic! Were I just getting started, Logic would pretty much be a no-brainer, what with the depth of VIs and plugins it offers. I use MainStage live, and find the Vintage Keys very useful.

However, it seems that the DP12 release is coming soon-ish, and if it lands with a nice intro discount I'll probably get that as well.

As you are probably aware, MOTU offers a crossgrade discount.

MOTU has confirmed DP12 is in development and folks are guessing June 2026. Methinks Atmos will be native in 12; other changes? Anybody's guess.

Until then, I'm very happy with DP11. Running it on my new M4 Max Mac Studio, life is good!

 

[CrimsonWarlock]

As you are probably aware, MOTU offers a crossgrade discount.

Yep, I know. Their crossgrade is priced similarly to Cubase's. But I got Cubase with an additional 30% off sale (and I could buy it through my company, which means no VAT), so I'm hoping I can catch something similar when DP 12 comes around. So far I also haven't seen the option to buy DP as a company purchase either.

 

[HCMarkus]

So far I also haven't seen the option to buy DP as a company purchase either.

You might reach out to MOTU directly on this.